New Enigma Thread

[miamimike]

Beller?...Bueller?...Bueller?...sorry...a little levity

 

[Gregg M]

Seems more like he was just envious - who wouldn't be?

I seriously doubt RT is or was envious... He has created so many high end morphs and combos... How could he be??? Imagine how much more he has up his sleave that he is just sitting on for now... Maybe what you have seen in those quotes are the same things we all strive for... Healthy animals that are genetically proven... Now that I read his quotes I feel he was not envious at all...

Now that I have fully read Pauls posts on the UK forum, I still do not feel he is against the Enigma morph... What I see is a real concern with the problems that may come with a small % of them... Are his concerns not valid??? Maybe his way of getting his point across can be a bit harsh but it is fair to read between the lines... Some of us have been harsh on the forums, myself included... Besides, he has conducted him self well here... Who cares what he does on another forum...

Look, we all know the Enigmas are one of the most exciting morphs to hit the market in years... Not so much for what they are but more for what the gene can create... SMOKIN HOT leos...

We can all sit here and point fingers or we can get back to creating beautiful leos and strengthening our blood lines...

Like Paulnj told me, "at the end of the day, we do not want to create Enigmas, we want to create beautiful, healthy leos using the Enigma gene"...

 

[knz-geckos]

woah i'm now completely confused paul, i have never had any problems with you and have backed you in the past this is the first time i have disagreed with you, and so i cannot understand 1.
what is personal about copying and pasting what you have said????

I have no personal issues with you at all

Quoted From Melanie on the other forum beings it is ok to do so.

you have upset and offend the many good breeders here in the uk and outside the uk with that comment!
not a clever thing to do!

So melanie what do you mean by the comment I have made Bold.

 

[knz-geckos]

I seriously doubt RT is or was envious... He has created so many high end morphs and combos... How could he be??? Imagine how much more he has up his sleave that he is just sitting on for now... Maybe what you have seen in those quotes are the same things we all strive for... Healthy animals that are genetically proven... Now that I read his quotes I feel he was not envious at all...

Now that I have fully read Pauls posts on the UK forum, I still do not feel he is against the Enigma morph... What I see is a real concern with the problems that may come with a small % of them... Are his concerns not valid??? Maybe his way of getting his point across can be a bit harsh but it is fair to read between the lines... Some of us have been harsh on the forums, myself included... Besides, he has conducted him self well here... Who cares what he does on another forum...

Look, we all know the Enigmas are one of the most exciting morphs to hit the market in years... Not so much for what they are but more for what the gene can create... SMOKIN HOT leos...

We can all sit here and point fingers or we can get back to creating beautiful leos and strengthening our blood lines...

Like Paulnj told me, "at the end of the day, we do not want to create Enigmas, we want to create beautiful, healthy leos using the Enigma gene"...

Thank you again Gregg

I agree the Enigma gene is exciting and would be wonderful to work with but due to the possible problems which we are seeing could cause problems I for one would not want this defect in my blood lines.

It's all about the passion and the well being of the leopard geckos, I for one do not want to create more geckos which have problems.

 

[leo mel]

oh paul i replied to you with this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo
Quick question on your earlier posts your comment " you have upset and offend the many good breeders here in the uk and outside the uk with that comment!
not a clever thing to do!" what do you mean by that then?

i meant that as a leopard gecko breeder yourself you would know how important it was for us all to comincate and share knowledge i felt that waht you had said had upset me and therfore it would upset others, i feel we should unite together and by saying not a clever thing to do i implied that by saying those things it would make communication more difficult between us all.
__________________

 

[miamimike]

I care how people conduct themselves Greg.....I care what people say on this forum and others....are you serious man???? Dude...have you read our posts on here?..you ask are his concerns not valid?...we have said over and over and over they are...that is NOT in question!.....
I'm sorry.....I guess I am at fault...when someone says something, whether to me in person or in writing i take it that they mean what they say. I mean...you have even MORE time to mull over your thoughts on a written forum.....I respect your thoughts .....but i really ask you just to re-think your position on that point man.
And I am all about no finger pointing....I dont think ANY of that was done here....I really dont follow you there man.... I am sorry.

But we agree on a very important point my friend....let get back to working to make some INCREDIBLE geckos!!!

 

[miamimike]

Now YOU are going to bring in what sopmeone said on another forum when you are trying to argue that we shouldnt???...I am WAAAAYYYYYY lost!...I need a break...good luck all and happy leo keeping!

 

[bro paul]

Look, we all know the Enigmas are one of the most exciting morphs to hit the market in years... Not so much for what they are but more for what the gene can create... SMOKIN HOT leos...

You're not kidding :main_thumbsup:

 

[leo mel]

yes have you all seen my enigma male baby on here, he is already stunning, mark and i were so excited this was our first enigma egg to hatch and in just two weeks the tangerine has intensified, i'm going to call him jaffa lol i just hope he's not seedless:main_laugh:

 

[knz-geckos]

Now YOU are going to bring in what sopmeone said on another forum when you are trying to argue that we shouldnt???...I am WAAAAYYYYYY lost!...I need a break...good luck all and happy leo keeping!

In regards to your comment.
I posted that mearly because it seemed threatening behavour as Mel as been quoting posts but not showing what was said before. Which I was replying to.

 

[dprince]

I seriously doubt RT is or was envious... He has created so many high end morphs and combos... How could he be??? Imagine how much more he has up his sleave that he is just sitting on for now... Maybe what you have seen in those quotes are the same things we all strive for... Healthy animals that are genetically proven... Now that I read his quotes I feel he was not envious at all...

You don't need to defend him, or his amazing contributions, or anything else. I agree, RT probably has more smoking amazing things coming along the line......as I stated before, none of that is in dispute. I have had NO personal problems with RT. You can think he wasn't envious......because we all know that in human behavior, those who have a lot don't ever want it ALL....... :main_rolleyes: Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't........who cares?!??! I was trying to make amends for bad wording on my part on an earlier post. "Seems" is a pretty innocuous word, and not accusatory.

As I read this, you seem to be more than willing to "come to the defense" of whoever YOU deem is being "picked on", but in the same breath seem to try and run down semantics and things that don't matter one iota of any one else. What gives? As humans, we're NOT objective - not really. I get that. If you are really attempting to see the issues through "unbiased eyes", it's not coming across that way. Just my interpretation...........

 

[dprince]

Quoted From Melanie on the other forum beings it is ok to do so.

you have upset and offend the many good breeders here in the uk and outside the uk with that comment!
not a clever thing to do!

So melanie what do you mean by the comment I have made Bold.

Now YOU are bringing personal issues into a discussion that didn't have them, or warrent them. I'm going to ask you once - nicely - to stop.

 

[Gregg M]

I dont know Mike, maybe I am looking at his posts like my own... I know I have said some harsh things I may have regreted saying in the past on forums... The thing with my posts is that under all the crap talk, there is a message... We all know how it is when you go against the grain and a you find yourself in the midst of a crap storm... It isnt nice and you automatically go into fight or flight mode... If you are anything like me, you stay and fight and say things that may be off the cuff... LOL... I know I am much easier to converse with in person than I am on a forum... LOL

What I ment by finger pointing was the general way Paul is being treated for his opinion and the way he brings his point across... I do not agree 100% with all of his postings but I can understand his concern... And basically his actions on another forum, with different people, a whole ocean away, should have no influence here... He came here for answers and got a beating...

I feel you Mike... I know what you are saying... Call me one day and I will tell you all about my experience with something you brought up in your post... LOL

 

[knz-geckos]

Now YOU are bringing personal issues into a discussion that didn't have them, or warrent them. I'm going to ask you once - nicely - to stop.

No problem with me Debbie. Just mearly stating something which was said beings Mel liked quoting other posts.

My bad....

How are you anyway?

 

[boutiquegecko]

Just want to say I think it's an interesting topic as well. The more we can learn about the ptoential health issue the better.
This might have already been answered, but in subsequent generations, have any of the outcrossed enigmas shown this behavior? Once enigma ? x enigma ? are crossed again, I wonder if the behavior will show back up?

Back to the topic at hand I have another question. What if it's not correctable? Say once we start breeding our enigma crosses back to each other and the issue comes back up or is worse, then what?
Like the mack it's been crossed so much already and flooding the market (or will over this year), that how many other morphs will be effected by this if any are already? Has anyone noticed any of the non enigma siblings displaying this behavior? I realize it's a small percent that exhibit the behavior-just thinking ahead.

 

[SteveB]

I've always been very outspoken about not liking the enigma morph being on the public market. While the price does keep it out of the novice breeder's hands, I don't necessarily think that offspring of an animal with a genetic defect should be sold, period. And I have to add on to Marlo's sentiment by posing a question- after how many generations of outcrossing should we still consider it ethical to breed a morph that has a defective, undesireable trait surfacing?

 

[dprince]

No problem with me Debbie. Just mearly stating something which was said beings Mel liked quoting other posts.

My bad....

How are you anyway?

I understand. Quoting from another forum is fine as long as it follows the GF TOS and is pertinent to the discussion at hand. Posting remarks like this is just not OK - especially because you are the one who kept stating that she was saying personal remarks against you in this thread when she had not. What happens on your forums is entirely in your hands.

And I am well, thanks for asking. You?

 

[Gregg M]

As I read this, you seem to be more than willing to "come to the defense" of whoever YOU deem is being "picked on", but in the same breath seem to try and run down semantics and things that don't matter one iota of any one else. What gives? As humans, we're NOT objective - not really. I get that. If you are really attempting to see the issues through "unbiased eyes", it's not coming across that way. Just my interpretation...........

Look Deb, I am topical... LOL... I am human Deb, I can never look through "unbiased eyes" at all times... I never claim to do so... What are my motives you ask??? Look, its good to get postings other than "Hey, awesome leo!" or "Should I take my leo off the calci-sand?" Or "Wow, I am going to need sunglasses to look at that SHTCBRREXYZ Enigma SS!!!"

This is real stuff with real meaning and concern... For some reason, when a concern comes up that may have a negative effect, it seems to be quickly shoved into a corner or covered up with posts made in another venue... Or, better yet, a little lock is put on the thread heading... That is not cleaning the mess... Like I said, I dont agree with Paul 100% but the dude has his points and I have conversed with him personally and he is a real nice guy...

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Has anyone ever had a gecko with a kinked tail????

There is a lot to learn here.

 

[knz-geckos]

I understand. Quoting from another forum is fine as long as it follows the GF TOS and is pertinent to the discussion at hand. Posting remarks like this is just not OK - especially because you are the one who kept stating that she was saying personal remarks against you in this thread when she had not. What happens on your forums is entirely in your hands.

And I am well, thanks for asking. You?

Sorry Debbie I just got annoyed with it and I shouldn't of bought it onto the forums i was just getting frustrated my appologys

Im fine thank you for asking still catching up on sleep after the Hamm show