Profits???

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Haha, just be quick and quiet about it.

 

[Landen]

wow you guys will run off with anything huh? To answer your questions, I've been keeping and breeding reptiles since I was young, mostly snakes but now new to gecko's. I never said that I was making a living on my reptiles, I have a real job m-f to pay my bills. As far as the expenses that I have paid out compared to the gross amount of my sales. I made a profit my first year. So if you were unable to do that with your mba and everything, then apparently I am doing something that you all are not. I was simply stating that it can be done. I have a small colony with some premium animals which gives me low cost to maintain and the potential for higher priced hatchlings. I sold everything I produced this year at 5 shows locally. My gecko's were aquired for an amazing deal, and I keep my costs low. How is that hard to do?

I'm here to talk to others like myself, to gain further knowledge, not to argue and gossip like when we were in high school.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Thank you Landen......I agree. People I do not mean any disrespect but making money at this hobby is all about working smart not working hard......you do not need the most up to date gadget or the newest morph, it is all about producing a healthy animal and then convincing your customer that they are getting exactly what they were looking for....but not everyone is a born salesman so they will struggle even if they have better animals. LOL....bring on the hate mail.

 

[acpart]

I think there can be a difference between "making money" and "making a living". I have a post about how I made a profit this season --all of about $300 not including what I spent on mileage and utilities. Other people have posted occasionally about making significantly more, even enough to "make a living" but if they compute their hourly wage taking into account all the time they spend on care and feeding it comes out to a low figure.

I agree that being a good salesperson and working "smart" will go a long way to sales success but there is also a limit as to how much the market will bear and there are a lot of leopard geckos out there. I don't know for sure that there is a complete correlation between the people who "work smart" and those who succeed. Sometimes, depending on the market and personal circumstances, it doesn't work out. If it is working out for you, that's great. I'm doing OK so far, but this year I produced significantly more geckos than last year. I am usually sold out by the end of Jan. every year and though I have the month to go, I still have 18 (2 of which are on hold) to move, and I am an extremely good salesperson.

Good luck (no hate mail here)

Aliza

 

[Gregg M]

I think there can be a difference between "making money" and "making a living".

I like how that was put Aliza.. To the point and 100% correct...

There is a lot of money to be made in this hobby... It is a 3 billion dollar a year industry...

If you are good at what you do and are working with the proper species there is no reason you can not make money... The thing is, you need to spend a lot before you make a little...

 

[Taquiq]

Yep, I spent over 200$ on rack wood, and all the other breeding stuff.

 

[Magic Merlin]

The thing is, you need to spend a lot before you make a little...

We have different definitions of what "a lot" means.......it takes money to make money. And when you say, "make a little" I hope you mean above and beyond your initial investment......a profit, no matter how small, is still a profit.

As for the time spent argument equating to a low hourly wage my only response to that is: I cannot put a monetary value on the joy that I receive working with the animals I love.

Aliza, working smart and being a good salesperson are 2 separate aspects to business and if you are not a master of both then you may not see much success. Also you stated, "Sometimes, depending on the market and personal circumstances, it doesn't work out" and "I am an extremely good salesperson" these are fundamental contradicting statements......you cannot consider yourself a good salesperson if you already have in the back of your mind the reasons why you will fail. In my book, the possibility of failure does not exist and if someone does not buy from me then it is entirely my fault and I will show no ego and learn from my mistakes.

 

[acpart]

I appreciate the value of unfettered optimism combined with wise practices, but if I'm growing apples and it turns out that everyone else in my neighborhood is growing apples then I'm not going to sell many apples no matter how good a salesperson I am. Of course, in that case, I should consider growing pears instead . . . I think the gecko situation is more complicated but in any case I have never been comfortable with the philosophy that anything is possible if only I try hard enough because the implication is that if it doesn't work then I didn't try hard enough (even if the market is glutted with apples). I am happy, though, to agree to disagree.

Aliza

 

[dprince]

I appreciate the value of unfettered optimism combined with wise practices, but if I'm growing apples and it turns out that everyone else in my neighborhood is growing apples then I'm not going to sell many apples no matter how good a salesperson I am. Of course, in that case, I should consider growing pears instead . . . I think the gecko situation is more complicated but in any case I have never been comfortable with the philosophy that anything is possible if only I try hard enough because the implication is that if it doesn't work then I didn't try hard enough (even if the market is glutted with apples). I am happy, though, to agree to disagree.

Aliza

I completely agree with you. It's a mistake to believe that if you (the general you, not anyone in particular) just work hard enough, and want it enough, then you'll be successful at xyz. The truth is, breeding leos (or any other reptile or animal) can be profitable, but it takes more than hard work (which it is!!) and wanting it enough.

One of my favorite sayings is that "life is half choice, and half chance." This certainly applies to breeding animals. You can plan carefully for success (buy the right equipment, buy the best stock, set up a beautiful website, etc.) but without some luck (including hitting the genetic wheel of fortune as well as not having 5,000 other people selling the same thing as you), knowing the right people (connections and reputation are everything), timing things perfectly (like knowing when to grow pears instead of apples ), etc., etc., you could still end up back where you started - only with your pockets a whole lot lighter.

I don't want to discourage anyone from breeding, or from believing that there is a profit to be made in breeding. There certainly can be, but it takes more than just wanting it and working hard (and investing xyz amount of money.) Like Aliza said, it's complicated. And I firmly believe that it's half choice, half chance whether or not you (the general you) can make a living, or even a profit at it.

Those are my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

I like your saying Debbie. I agree with you and Aliza. This is why its very important to diversify your stalks beyond one species (if profit is your intentions). If your selling apples, pears, and plums (in small to medium quantities you will easily achieve a higher profit margin than a table overflowing with apples.

I bet you didn't think your analogy would be used so readily huh Aliza. Haha

 

[Magic Merlin]

OMG!!!!!!!!.....both of those replies wreaked of "stinkin' thinkin'".......you are already justifing why you cannot succeed before you have even tried. My point is this, if everyone is selling identical apples then you have to present your apple in a different light and "wanting it" more than someone else is not going to help.....you need to create a desire for your product and if their is no desire for your product then you find a product that people desire. BY THE WAY!!!........as long as ******** and ***** are selling their sickly geckos and people are buying them then the market is NOT saturated and any breeder with the ability to form a sentence can blow them out of the water with knowledge and customer service.....ie: "here is my number, if you ever have a problem with this little fella don't hesitate to call and if you refer business to me then I will give you a discount on future purchases......and I can save you a bunch of money on feeders." (cross selling and 1 stop shopping) LOL.....I love how I am giving my competetors the tools to succeed. "Ok team....break on 4.....let's have a good day out there selling geckos"

 

[Magic Merlin]

wow.....did not know that we cannot name retail establishments........I refered to 2 nationwide retailers of pets and pet supplies.

 

[dprince]

OMG!!!!!!!!.....both of those replies wreaked of "stinkin' thinkin'".......you are already justifing why you cannot succeed before you have even tried. My point is this, if everyone is selling identical apples then you have to present your apple in a different light and "wanting it" more than someone else is not going to help.....you need to create a desire for your product and if their is no desire for your product then you find a product that people desire. BY THE WAY!!!........as long as ******** and ***** are selling their sickly geckos and people are buying them then the market is NOT saturated and any breeder with the ability to form a sentence can blow them out of the water with knowledge and customer service.....ie: "here is my number, if you ever have a problem with this little fella don't hesitate to call and if you refer business to me then I will give you a discount on future purchases......and I can save you a bunch of money on feeders." (cross selling and 1 stop shopping) LOL.....I love how I am giving my competetors the tools to succeed. "Ok team....break on 4.....let's have a good day out there selling geckos"

Hmmm.........as a breeder for several years, and one who has yielded both a fairly hefty *amount* of baby geckos as well as *income* from geckos, I don't believe I have a case of "stinkin' thinkin'. :main_no: I also admit that even with a fairly respectable INCOME from geckos, I am still not profitable. Something to ask yourself (this can apply to anyone, not just the OP) - how long have you been breeding? How many geckos have you sold? How profitable is your breeding operation? If people honestly look at their costs versus their expendatures, I think most - if even profitable at all - will be minimal at best.

Do some breeders make a living at this? Absolutely - and a darn good one, at that. But not without many other factors figured in - it's way too simplistic (and quite frankly naive) to think that wanting it, working hard, and good customer service alone is going to sell your animals. If you don't produce geckos that people want, that aren't healthy (ie: have congenital deformities, which happens to ALL breeders, I assure you), have a terrible hatch rate (I know one big breeder who had a 1.5% hatch rate one year - that's right, ONE POINT FIVE percent hatch rate - and this was a veteran breeder), etc., you aren't going to make money. In fact, you're going to LOSE money hand over fist. Mother Nature is a force at work that has to be factored in - and you cannot plan for every occurance, good or bad, that is effected by things you cannot control. Period.

And just because big chain pet stores can sell geckos has no bearing what-so-ever on whether or not a market is saturated.

I also personally take offense to "any breeder with the ability to form a sentence can blow them out of the water with knowledge and customer service." Every breeder I know can "form a sentence"; not every breeder is totally knowledgable. Heck, *I* still have lots to learn, as do many of us - including some VERY long time breeders. They will tell you as much. I know some successful breeders (of various species of reptiles) who have *less than desirable* customer service skills, and who are "successful" - meaning they can make a living at reptiles.

As I've stated before, I believe that breeding can be profitable - but there are things that CAN be controlled, and things that CANNOT be controlled that also come into play. It's just not simple - THAT is the point I'm trying to make. If I was unclear, I'm happy to explain further.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Debbie, I am truly sorry you are unable to make a profit.

 

[KelliH]

Debbie, I am truly sorry you are unable to make a profit.

OK let's be honest here, how much profit have you made breeding leopard geckos? Also, the reason the two big chain stores are *ed out is because people are always slammin these establishments in a negative fashion and I find it saves me time just to have the system automatically * them.

 

[goReptiles]

It's not always in marketing because a normal leopard gecko is going to be a normal morph leopard gecko in any light. I am tons in the hole, and it makes me sad to see larger breeders selling lesser or equal quality for 3 and 4 times what I'm able to sell at, but oh well... That's the game. I've also seen them sell many times what I could at even high quality. Sometimes it's in reputation and days in the game.

The market will always be saturated with or without retail pet stores because there are tons of little breeders and big breeders everywhere, which makes selling harder, especially when you get 13 year olds with a max of a month experience with geckos who decide they want to breed.

And, with this economy people aren't willing to spend as much as before on the same thing.

I would be quite interested in how much profit you make, Magic Merlin, since you find it so easy.

 

[dprince]

Debbie, I am truly sorry you are unable to make a profit.

Wow, out of my whole post, that's the only thing you could remark on? :main_no: I'd love to know how many geckos you've bred and sold. What is your business name? I'd love to see your website. I'm speaking from my own, and others', experiences. If you have different experiences - not just theorhetical, but actual - I'd be glad to hear them.

I may be profitable some day - who knows. Like I said, there are many factors in play - some over which I have control, some over which I do not. The same "rules of engagement" apply to every single breeder or wanna be breeder on the face of the planet, whether any of us likes it or not.

I'm not trying to thwart anyone's optimism, hope, or positivity that they can either make a profit or a living breeding reptiles. It most certainly can be done! It's a fantasy, however, to think that if you "just have enough/want enough/work hard enough/etc." , that that alone will make you successful. If that were true, there'd be a heck of a lot more millionaires around.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Hi Kelli,

I was not thinking when I named the chain stores and I think *ing them out is a good idea because of the potential headaches.

"Breeding" and "selling" are 2 separate things.......I have not produced even 1 of my own geckos yet BUT I have bought and sold enough to be in the black. My knowledge base comes from a lifetime of breeding and selling different species and let's not forget that my day job is running a organization revolving around sales. Everything I have posted has revolved around the art of the sale and not putting all your eggs in 1 basket by selling 1 product. I am only offering words of encouragement to people who are sick of being told that something is not possible or a business model is not viable. Instead of dragging others into your private hell how about you bounce ideas and experiences you have had off each other and together you both can learn and be more successful. Over the last 35 years of breeding and selling various species of reptiles, dogs, and cats I have seen countless established breeders go out of business because they were stuck in self destructive behaviors and were unable to adapt to a changing market.

Kelli, you seem to be fairly successful at this reptile breeding business, what is your secret? I bet that you practice a lot of what I preach and have cultivated other sales avenues that 95% of breeders would not go to the trouble of utilizing.....bravo.

I have another random thought, if everyone utilized their own experiences and got the word out to the general public, I 100% believe that not only could we take business away from the big chain stores but also expand local reptile shows by 10 fold within a couple of years.

 

[sunshinegeckofarm]

Ability to make a profit- yes that is possible


But IMHO that much of peoples success has to do with their reputation. If your name is out there and you have great reviews from people then your more likely to have animals bought from you. Also quality animals plays too. Also if you can raise your own feeders will help you in the long run with profiting from breeding, which i am working on doing for myself.

Everyones profit is individual and no one will have the same profit as someone else.

Personally this is just my hobby if i can make some money back to put back into my geckos then im happy. i love breeding my geckos no matter if i make a profit or not. i love seeing little itty bitty screaming baby geckos lol.

 

[Magic Merlin]

there are tons of little breeders and big breeders everywhere, which makes selling harder, especially when you get 13 year olds with a max of a month experience with geckos who decide they want to breed.

Their is not a 13 year old on this planet that can outsell me or any breeder that I grew up with.