sand sand sand

[ReptileMan27]

me personally no. i do not have any lizard eaters but some people do

lol well that wasnt really the point of the post:main_thumbsup:, the point was that just because something maybe natural or something they come across in the wild, doesent mean its safe or something you should do in captivity:main_thumbsup:

 

[robin]

well someone brought up the point of breeding. that is natural but allot of people do it and yes their are risks involved. so again should we breed because of the possible complications that could arise?

 

[ReptileMan27]

well someone brought up the point of breeding. that is natural but allot of people do it and yes their are risks involved. so again should we breed because of the possible complications that could arise?

well thats a risk that is worth taking if you want to breed. Breeding is more important and worth a small risk then something usless and stupid such as a substrate:main_thumbsup:

 

[Scott&Nikki]

There won't be leos if there is no breeding. There will be leos if there is no sand. In my opinion, more leos.

 

[plecoperson]

Breeding leo's can as rare as it is can result in a female becoming egg bound.Dose that mean that we should not breed leo's coz a small percent can become egg bound ???

If there were several other ways to breed geckos that were known to be safe, though, would you not choose one of those?

 

[robin]

well thats a risk that is worth taking if you want to breed. Breeding is more important and worth a small risk then something usless and stupid such as a substrate:main_thumbsup:

but what about not taking any risks if it involves the health of the gecko thing? geckos are already overbred as it is you have no clue how amny geckos die due to complications of being bred and whatnot... i would suspect many more than get impacted with sand.
so it is ok to risk the possible death of your geckos breeding them but using sand you would not risk the possible death of your gecko?

 

[ReptileMan27]

but what about not taking any risks if it involves the health of the gecko thing? geckos are already overbred as it is you have no clue how amny geckos die due to complications of being bred and whatnot... i would suspect many more than get impacted with sand.
so it is ok to risk the possible death of your geckos breeding them but using sand you would not risk the possible death of your gecko?

A substrate is not of any importance,breeding is a normal thing that is of importance. Your willing to risk leos life over somethings usless and stupid?. Yes breeding can have risks, if someone chooses to breed, they should know the risks.

 

[robin]

is breeding really THAT important? you would be willing to breed your animals and risk their lives as something as useless and stupid as breeding? as far as i know leos do not breed for pleasure but rather to procreate. and with all the leos all over the place. flooding the web, pet shops and so fourth why risk your animals to it. just because some people say it is ok doesn't mean there are not many risks involved.

 

[robin]

A substrate is not of any importance

apparently it is considering we have so many discussions on it

 

[ReptileMan27]

Well thats your choice, if you feel a substrate is important enough to risk your leos life over,thats your choice. The only reason this topic is so common is because people constantly ask the same question over and over. Experienced keepers/breeders warn them but they dont listen, dont know why they would ask a question and not listen to experienced keepers.

I thinks its pretty safe to say after reading this and many of the other substrate debates, most of the big breeders and experienced keepers dont use or reccomend it. I would think that would be enough for most people but not all I guess.

 

[KelliH]

I kept my adult breeder leos on playsand for years and they did great. Never one problem with the sand or impaction. That being said, with the number of geckos I have, it is easier for me to keep them on paper towel. Anyone with a large leo collection knows that you will lose one or two adult animals each season due to problems associated with breeding and egg development. Therefore, you are more likely to have geckos die due to breeding them than keeping them on sand.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

But Kelli, can't you agree with the point that there is nothing you can do about breeding problems. That is a natural action and it is necessary for the procreation of the species. Not 1 sand impaction is "worth it" which you can agrue breeding is. Sand does nothing for the leopard gecko species. They shouldn't even be compared.

 

[Gazz]

There won't be leos if there is no breeding. There will be leos if there is no sand. In my opinion, more leos.

There wouldn't be any leo's to breed if sand was such a problem the speices would have been extinct a long time ago if sand was a problem for the speices adaped or die.Is all very well saying yes but there rock and grass and dirt etc'etc but there is SAND as well it's there and they see it walk on it and hunt on it and are still alive as a wild speices today.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

There wouldn't be any leo's to breed if sand was such a problem the speices would have been extinct a long time ago if sand was a problem for the speices adaped or die.Is all very well saying yes but there rock and grass and dirt etc'etc but there is SAND as well it's there and they see it walk on it and hunt on it and are still alive as a wild speices today.

No one here EVER said sand will kill every leo. I said even if there is 1% chance it isn't worth it to me...then I get jumped on about it. That is all I said.

 

[Gazz]

No one here EVER said sand will kill every leo. I said even if there is 1% chance it isn't worth it to me...then I get jumped on about it. That is all I said.

I'm a little on your wave lenth in that no one won't to lose a much loved leo by somthing as simple as sand but the odds are equal people have lossed as meny leo's on sand as off sand it's all breeding history of the leo and how there care for etc.I do rase hatching leo's on paper coz they do have little stomach's and dosen't take a lot of sand to fill them so there is deffantly a possible risk of impack this hasn't happen to me coz i haven't let it.But i do chance them to sand when they are about sub adult's by now they have bigger stomack's which mean little bit of sand now and then is't really a issue and the chance of impacked is lessoned greatly.Me my self have never had i problem with impacked doing things this way.But like i said before i beleave that there are leo's out there with a kind of compulsive behaviour and it more these leo's you have to whatch.

 

[KelliH]

But Kelli, can't you agree with the point that there is nothing you can do about breeding problems. That is a natural action

Breeding in the wild is of course natural, however on the flip side, keeping leos in small plastic bins on paper towel, and feeding them food out of a dish that is extremely high in fat to the point that many of them become obese is not. Supplementing them with Calcium and D3 which increases the females egg production moreso than it would be in the wild is not natural either.

Geckos in the wild live on dirt, sand, rocks. In the wild they feed on all sorts of insects, probably small rodents and even on other lizards/geckos that they actively hunt for. That is the natural way they live. I've never seen a photograph of a fat wild caught leopard gecko.

Look, try and be open minded about this; I am speaking from practical, working experience, many years of keeping and breeding geckos in captivity. I am not basing my conclusions on what I read on the internet.

 

[KelliH]

I said even if there is 1% chance it isn't worth it to me...then I get jumped on about it.

I personally am not jumping on you, I promise. This whole sand debate just seems neverending, we have the same discussions year after year after year. Please remember, it is just that: a discussion, which is a good thing that I personally welcome on this website. Keep it up!:main_yes:

 

[JBrune]

Sandwagon

I keep my breeding adults on play sand. I have done this for 9 or 10 years, sorry getting to old to remember. I have never had a problem with any impaction. When I purchased my first rack I placed some non-breeding & virgin sub adults in it. I had my first medical problem with a virgin female becoming egg bound which I attributed to the lack of a laying spot. You see I was only using papertowels in the moist hide as well. For me I feel that what some people put in their moist hides such as vermiculite, bed a beast, and moss looks bigger and stringier (is that a word) then sand. I feel that things like that poss just as great of a chance of being ingested and becoming impacted as some grains of smooth sand. I think people are going to what they are comfortable with but just like educating people about sand one has to make sure they consider other contraindication such as egg binding when using papertowels. I think things will alway happen that may be unexplained or weird but mostly if you pay attention to details and practice clean husbandry anyone can keep 1 or 1000 geckos on most any surface.
-Joyce

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Kelli, I wasn't referring to you about me being jumped on about this. It just seems like other, VERY experienced keepers (such as Marcia) say EXACTLY what I say, and it gets turned on me for being closed minded, and other similar things.

I was purely saying *I* do not agree with keeping leos on sand no matter how small the risk is. If I don't have to risk impaction and worrying about the possibility by using a cheaper, easier to clean substrate, I am not going to by any means. I forget who it was, but I don't want to be one of those people saying my leo was fine on sand for 8 years, and then find a leo dead due to sand impaction. It isn't going to happen. I never told anyone "don't use sand". I purely stated why I felt sand was a poor substrate. Although I have never seen one in person, every impaction case I have seen or heard of was in an adult leo. So that whole "they are fine as adults" position isn't going to bring me over to that side, if that's what the purpose is. I realize I don't have the experience many of you do, but when I get my info from people with experience, it is close enough.

Geckos in the wild live on dirt, sand, rocks. In the wild they feed on all sorts of insects, probably small rodents and even on other lizards/geckos that they actively hunt for. That is the natural way they live. I've never seen a photograph of a fat wild caught leopard gecko.

I think is possible evidence of why sand in the wild may be used for digestion, but why it should not be used now. They probably do eat things as you mentioned, and because they are so large, they may need some sand to help break it down. In captivity, we feed our leos small enough prey that sand probably does more harm than good.

 

[NaughtyDawg]

wow, very well said:main_thumbsup:. I just will never understand why someone would still choose to use or reccomend something that has killed before and will again

You get in your car everyday right.