sand sand sand

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Oh, for Christ's sake... this debate will NEVER be resolved. I think we should have a dedicated forum just for sand debates! LOL!!!

Personally, I do not really have any issues with healthy adult geckos on non-silica sand substrates. I don't feel it is appropriate for hatchlings or juveniles, though.

I DO take issue with Calcium Sand! It is inappropriate for ANY Leopard Gecko.

So, can we have our cookie and go and watch TV now?

 

[KelliH]

In captivity, we feed our leos small enough prey that sand probably does more harm than good.

I totally respect your choice of gecko substrate. All I am saying (and all I have ever said) is that I found that keeping leos on sand did no harm at all. I ditched the play sand years ago when my collection got so much larger; too dusty *cough sneeze*

Also, just for the record, I know of a few VERY experienced breeders that still keep their leopard geckos on sand. I also know some that keep them on alfalfa pellets. If it isn't broken, no reason to fix it. But really, it's a personal preference isn't it?

 

[KelliH]

LOL @ Marcia.

SAND SAND SAND SAND

 

[Jayyoung]

just to fan the fire...

I keep my geckos on a mixture of broken glass and cobalt 66. I decided long ago (while reading the last post) that cobalt 66 is the way to go it can produce some very interesting aberrant morphs. the broken glass is just for "looks". Sand... I guess they live on sand in the wild, but I was under the impression that they burrowed... I don't know now where I got that and I could have just made it up... I am writing this all in pure jest it means nothing. nothing in the last post made me think of cobalt 66 it just kind of popped in my head. and a big thumbs up to anyone who can give me a medical use for cobalt 66. I don't like sand when it is wet. I can't help but imagine it crunching between my teeth. and then I get a nauseous feeling. the same feeling i get when i think of cinnamon.
edited for my dogs.
i keep them on hardwood flooring and carpet and grass and linoleum tile.

 

[LeosForLess]

Kelli, i know this is off topic, but when you say big breeders lose animals due to breeding, do you mean like 200-300 geckos or like 20-30?

 

[marula]

I keep my geckos on a mixture of broken glass and cobalt 66. I decided long ago (while reading the last post) that cobalt 66 is the way to go it can produce some very interesting aberrant morphs. the broken glass is just for "looks".

:main_laugh: :main_laugh:
this is one of the mlst funny post in the 2000000 sand topic that i never read :main_laugh: :main_laugh:
..interesting...cobalt 66 for aberrant morph...
:thinking: i need to try :thinking:

 

[Scott&Nikki]

But really, it's a personal preference isn't it?

Exactly. It is personal preference. I have stated my strong personal preference and every time certain people (not you, Kelli) take it for much more than that. Just because I question someone else's preference doesn't mean I am saying they are "wrong". It gets turned around on me every time, and that is why I am so tired of this same debate after only a couple months here. I think a sand forum would literally be the death of me. All I ask is that people see my point. I completely understand other points of first hand experience that it works. I just don't agree personally with many of the points.

 

[KelliH]

Kelli, i know this is off topic, but when you say big breeders lose animals due to breeding, do you mean like 200-300 geckos or like 20-30?

No no no, I mean one, maybe 2 each season.

Exactly. It is personal preference. I have stated my strong personal preference and every time certain people (not you, Kelli) take it for much more than that. Just because I question someone else's preference doesn't mean I am saying they are "wrong". It gets turned around on me every time, and that is why I am so tired of this same debate after only a couple months here. I think a sand forum would literally be the death of me. All I ask is that people see my point. I completely understand other points of first hand experience that it works. I just don't agree personally with many of the points.

Exactly! That is exactly how those of us that have no problem with using sand feel! No one is right or wrong,

 

[JBrune]

Very funny Marcia, but...

I'm going to go have a SANDwich instead!
JB

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Exactly! That is exactly how those of us that have no problem with using sand feel! No one is right or wrong,

Lol well, when name-calling starts, I'm not so sure I agree with that...

 

[robin]

Exactly. It is personal preference. I have stated my strong personal preference and every time certain people (not you, Kelli) take it for much more than that. Just because I question someone else's preference doesn't mean I am saying they are "wrong". It gets turned around on me every time, and that is why I am so tired of this same debate after only a couple months here. I think a sand forum would literally be the death of me. All I ask is that people see my point. I completely understand other points of first hand experience that it works. I just don't agree personally with many of the points.

*raises hand* ME ME ME

no but you have said. those people who do keep their animals on sand must not care about their animals health and well being.

 

[robin]

Lol well, when name-calling starts, I'm not so sure I agree with that...

i haven't called anyone names yet

 

[Gregg M]

I think is possible evidence of why sand in the wild may be used for digestion, but why it should not be used now. They probably do eat things as you mentioned, and because they are so large, they may need some sand to help break it down. In captivity, we feed our leos small enough prey that sand probably does more harm than good.

This has not been proven/documented nor is it the likely case... Especially when you are talking about small, largely insectivorous reptiles... The only order of reptiles that have been proven/documented to use foreighn material like stones, to aid in digestion, are crocodillians...

 

[LeosForLess]

LOL Kelli, i mean what do you consider a big breeder to lose one or 2?

 

[KelliH]

Lol well, when name-calling starts, I'm not so sure I agree with that...

Can you give me an example of the name calling? I'm not seeing it.

LOL Kelli, i mean what do you consider a big breeder to lose one or 2?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, can you rephrase the question?

 

[ReptileMan27]

The sand debate will never end aslong as people that have been lucky with it so far, continue to say its safe because they have been lucky with it. Unfourtantly not everyone has shared the same luck, yea it may be rare but it has happened and will again. But everyones different,I dont gamble with my animals lifes,but of course I dont gamble mylself,always loose .

 

[Gregg M]

The sand debate will never end aslong as people that have been lucky with it so far, continue to say its safe because they have been lucky with it. Unfourtantly not everyone has shared the same luck, yea it may be rare but it has happened and will again.

I feel leos kept on sand without problems with impaction has less to do with luck and more to do with proper husbandry... If an adult leo gets impacted from being kept on sand, there is most likely a problem with the husbandry... It could range from not being properly supplemented to not being properly hydrated... Even if you have a 92°f basking spot, if the ambient temps are not high enough, it can cause digestive issues...
Instead of looking at what impacted the leo, we should look into what actually caused the impaction to occur...

Remember, if a reptile is not cared for properly its normal food source can cause an impaction...

 

[Double LY]

Um, Marcia mentioned cookies like 3 pages ago and I still haven't received mine. Maybe not a Mean Old Gecko Lady, but definitely a "cookie tease"

 

[ReptileMan27]

I feel leos kept on sand without problems with impaction has less to do with luck and more to do with proper husbandry... If an adult leo gets impacted from being kept on sand, there is most likely a problem with the husbandry... It could range from not being properly supplemented to not being properly hydrated... Even if you have a 92°f basking spot, if the ambient temps are not high enough, it can cause digestive issues...
Instead of looking at what impacted the leo, we should look into what actually caused the impaction to occur...

Remember, if a reptile is not cared for properly its normal food source can cause an impaction...

I defently see what your saying and agree with it to a degree but like I said before, while that can explain many deaths, it doesent all:main_thumbsup:. If your leo isnt healthy for whatever reason, sand would be one more thing you have to worry about, where is if you were using something safe, you wouldnt have to worry about the substrate killing your leo as well:main_thumbsup:

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Kelli, the name calling thing, I was refering to recent sand debates in general. Not this one.

Greg, I said that was my opinion which stemmed from the debate about VMS herps saying sand aids in digestion. I said that I could see it being true in very small amounts, and moreso in the wild with larger prey. I never said that was true. I started that sentance with "I think it's possible evidence...". And all I have been trying to explain in these many debates is no, maybe not the sand doesn't "cause" impaction, but it IS impacting them in some cases. No one can know for sure if their enclosure is perfect, especially when an enclosure itself isn't "natural". All I have been TRYING to say is that I am not going to risk that EVERYTHING is perfect in my set up, if without sand there may be room for a littler error.