Sell morphs for their worth

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

+1, this is why you line breed and control the market on your unique line of something. Like Gregg said about people shelling out thousands for a new morph...there are "investment quality" reptiles and then everything below that. SO there will always be crazy priced reptiles but the general market will change continually with trends and the ability for consumers to purchase morphs at a price we want for them.

Perfect example of pricing is Radars...1000+ for some. Its only going to be a year or two and they will be like 200 tops.

 

[GreenKnight Exotics]

Perfect example of pricing is Radars...1000+ for some. Its only going to be a year or two and they will be like 200 tops.

A swindle of this nature, once a "bubble," is now referred to as a "Ponzi scheme."

Dave

p.s. google it

 

[Samantha]

Personally if they wernt so cheep I couldnt/wouldn't be able to have the geckos I have so I'm happy about it ima breed them hold them till prices go back up by then ill have a nice line going

 

[robin]

A swindle of this nature, once a "bubble," is now referred to as a "Ponzi scheme."

Dave

p.s. google it

no one says buy buying a higher dollar morph is going to make you money. a $1000 RADAR is priced like that because only a couple of people have actually produced them. it's not a scheme but rather supply and demand. once more people are producing them the price will go down. whomever gets into the high dollar morphs automatically thinking they are going to make big money is a fool. the breeders are not scammers but happen to have produced a morph before everyone else has. they have something others might want. if they chose to spend $1000, they must think that is what the gecko is worth. just because some people produce high end morphs doesnt mean you have to be a hater and think it is some sort of scheme.

 

[GreenKnight Exotics]

hold them till prices go back up by then ill have a nice line going

I'm sorry to burst your "bubble"(lol),.. but, the prices will not go back up,....ever.
Leopard geckos are far too prolific and far too resilient for that to happen.
The longer you hold onto your morphs, the sooner other people will have bred them out and slashed the "market value", thus leaving you with $50 geckos no matter what the morph, and, considering that you'll have to compete with the established breeders, you won't have much of a chance to make your investment back. I'm not trying to be a jerk (no matter what others say,..), just being honest.
Dave

 

[robin]

I'm sorry to burst your "bubble"(lol),.. but, the prices will not go back up,....ever.
Leopard geckos are far too prolific and far too resilient for that to happen.
The longer you hold onto your morphs, the sooner other people will have bred them out and slashed the "market value", thus leaving you with $50 geckos no matter what the morph, and, considering that you'll have to compete with the established breeders, you won't have much of a chance to make your investment back. I'm not trying to be a jerk (no matter what others say,..), just being honest.
Dave

one thing is that polygentic trait popularity comes and goes

 

[KelliH]

A swindle of this nature, once a "bubble," is now referred to as a "Ponzi scheme."

Dave

p.s. google it

I think that in the case of a morph such as a Radar, the prices dropping in the future have more to do with supply and demand ie. the more common a morph becomes, the lower the price.

 

[latshki]

something that could very well affect the prices on morphs is popularity, we have seen it in colubrids and ball pythons and Im sure once an albino crested gecko comes out it will switch to them, the same goes for what's happening in fat tail geckos, we are seeing new morphs in these guys all the time and soon enough popularity will go to them
you see trends in all markets weather it clothing, cars or animals

 

[jermh1]

who remembers when the early high yellows were going for $300 and a pied BP would run 15-20k, I was in high school. I have been watching from sidelines since then, just a scan here and there on KS or in reptile mag. I can say I have not seen the prices go back up. Its a changing world out there, and in here, there will always be high price geckos and low priced ones, dont get mad because yours are not high priced anymore. Extream pricing like $25 novas is not the norm, I have seen a few for $75 but not much lower, and some recently as much as $150

With that I can also say it is still hard to find a GOOD SHTCB for under $75 or a nice super snow for under $75. Yea so a blizzard goes for $35 and murphys patternless $25.
for me keeping them for fun the price being low, only increases my chances of getting cooler looking geckos and fun traits to play around with. If all the prices remained high then guess what NO ONE WOULD BUY THEM, except the people looking to make money off of them.

 

[GreenKnight Exotics]

the prices dropping in the future have more to do with supply and demand ie. the more common a morph becomes, the lower the price.

Exactly.
When only the top few people have said "morph", they can decide what the "value" is,...and they sell to those who are willing to "buy in" to the "value" of said "morph" **eh emm,...Emerine, eh em**

Call me a "hater" if you like, just keep in mind as far as my philosophy is concerned,..I consider myself as "getting in" at the bottom of the pyramid.
Supply and demand does not necessarily denounce the relevance of a "Ponzi" influence in the reptile trade, like it or not.
Dave

p.s. I love making new friends

 

[acpart]

Regardless of what other people are going to do and how much the geckos are going to get sold for, those of us who want to sell our geckos, either to pay for feeders or to clear out our racks for the next season, have to have a strategy that makes this possible for us. My way to go has been to breed high quality but lower end geckos (snows, tangs, albinos, stripes) that I feel I can legitimately sell for $25-50 (I check classifieds and websites before pricing to make sure I'm in the ballpark) and to avoid the more expensive ones. I go to shows and see geckos for sale at ridiculous prices but I'm usually not impressed with their quality. Eventually I feel that my name and reputation for my geckos' quality will prevail and that has proven to be true so far.
Another strategy is to breed a small number of high-end geckos, to choose a reasonable price for them and to hold the line until people are willing to pay that price. I feel that is possible, especially when I see the number of geckos costing over $1000 that JMG, for example, has marked "sold". Other people are cutting back on production and that works too.

Aliza

 

[latshki]

I must say that this is one of the best threads Ive read in a while

 

[herpman97]

Well, dont take this wrong, but I'm a first time breeder, and I am planning on selling some geckos for a little less than they are worth. I some times see animals that aren't woth more that $300 but are selling for $1000 and I don't want to be one of those people. And plus I'm not in it for the money, but like Brian Barczyk said, I'm not ashamed for making any. Plus, I'm an adolescent, so I really dont have much business doing this stuff (But I am prepared, mature enough, and have been keeping reptiles for over 2 years.)

 

[Taquiq]

With that I can also say it is still hard to find a GOOD SHTCB for under $75 or a nice super snow for under $75. Yea so a blizzard goes for $35 and murphys patternless $25.
for me keeping them for fun the price being low, only increases my chances of getting cooler looking geckos and fun traits to play around with. If all the prices remained high then guess what NO ONE WOULD BUY THEM, except the people looking to make money off of them.

I tottaly agree. If it is labled a Nova or something it has the same genetics as other Nova's that are higher price. Unless the breeder is an idiot that the Nova doesn't have the right genetics. I wouldn't buy if it was 1000.

 

[justindh1]

The main reason I feel that the market is bombing right now is that many breeders, big and small, have breed and hatched more geckos then they can get rid of. Its just that some people HAVE to get rid of them and will sell them at any price to move them out. Its not necessarily their fault but some people are selling them way too low. They should be prepared to house them if they can't sell them. I understand lowering the price but not shredding it. The problem is a combination of too many people breeding geckos and not many people being able to afford the "extra" things in life. Theirs always going to be people buying but supply and demand controls everything and its made the prices plunge. I just hope that people learn and adjust this year and get the supply lower to match the demand.

The economy has effected every single business and the reptile industry is no different. Once the economy is better and the majority of people feel comfortable spending money on the non necessities then the market will get better. Breeders have been effected and are getting out or slimming down so that will benefit the people that stick with it. I believe that it will get better but will take some time.

To me it doesn't matter if you sell high end or low end morphs, theirs always going to be people that buy each. I would guarantee most people not breeding reptiles arn't too worried about buying high end morphs that are high priced. They might have a select few but a majority will be lower or mid range priced. Its just like people buying name brand or generic brands. Theres always going to be people that want one or the other and will buy what they want. Right now there are more people buying the generic brands. I sold more normal lower prices geckos then higher priced geckos locally but I believe that theirs a market for both. They may not be equal and will change dependent on how high the demand is.

My looonnng 2 cents!

 

[Baoh]

Dave, I appreciate your input.

 

[adam&nikki]

i do beleive dave is right on this one cuz once every morph that could be made is done what the value of a leo going to be? if say 200 people start to breed novas and sell them for 25 buck then every one and their cat is going to get one same with black pearls same with every other high end morph that will be made so once the big breeders have made their money then the smaller ones will snap up all them leo morphs that are selling cheap and then the breed them and then you have a billion leos on the market and a small percent of the population buying them thus eventually you will have a leo costing 20 dollars no matter what morph it is

 

[robin]

ok so dave are you saying these people that sell high end morphs for the market price, let's say $1000 for RADARS. those people are scammers and swindlers since they are asking a high price for their animals?

 

[Baoh]

i do beleive dave is right on this one cuz once every morph that could be made is done what the value of a leo going to be?

It's a matter of creating a situation of scarcity. This lack of supply will then drive demand. There is the rational demand related, perhaps, to beauty (an outstandingly attractive morph to the masses) and then irrational demand related to the scarcity itself.

The trick, then, to supplying both criteria and taking full advantage of rational and irrational bases of demand would be to create something with widespread aesthetic appeal that is difficult to create and difficult to reproduce. This would be sold for a relatively large amount that cannot be a comfortable purchase for people that have income levels below most upper-middle class households. Additionally, even if capacity could be increased, breeders should not seek to increase said capacity. Instead, they should seek to maximize the value of the capacity they have. This, along with outright stoppage of production rather than price reduction if sales slow, would do great things for preservation. A breeder can charge more for an adult than a hatchling in a given demand environment, of course. Producing only females is an already used tactic, too.

It could and likely would eventually still break down, but this would slow the rate of devaluation.

Another thing, which would be a huge can of worms, might be proprietary morph traits. In this case, the breeder would not reveal what trait or traits make up the morph. I am personally not a fan of this, mind you, and would not give away my money for undisclosed materials. However, my experiences with people who consume other products leads me to believe that there is a significant market out there that would. Blurred hype definitions on a few morphs that currently exist indicate that we have a market segment that would salivate over this sort of nonsense already.

 

[GreenKnight Exotics]

ok so dave are you saying these people that sell high end morphs for the market price, let's say $1000 for RADARS. those people are scammers and swindlers since they are asking a high price for their animals?

No, I'm saying charge whatever you like for your animals, but that in my opinion leopard geckos should not warrant price tags in the thousands of dollars, due largely to the fact that are both very hardy and very prolific, not to mention the fact that they can breed at less than a year of age(things that can not be said about ball pythons for example). People who are concerned about the market value feel the need to produce as many visual morphs as soon as possible, and invariably find themselves with two racks of "investment quality" morphs that nobody is willing to buy,.. unless of course the seller drops their original asking price by 75%.
The reason that it can be compared to other "Ponzi" type schemes is that the people who got in on the ground floor are the ones that saw the big returns on their "investment quality" animals (a slogan that still gets tossed around today...), and subsequently marketed them as such, and as more and more people started getting "in", the pyramid started to grow, and the values started getting pushed down. Once the prices started going down, the number of buyers, and new breeders, went up significantly.
Then the numbers started to go the other way.
Too many geckos to sustain the need for "investment quality" morphs, and people who want a $50 gecko outnumber the ones who want a $500 gecko 50-1, so, all of a sudden those $500 geckos are only worth $100, because that's all that somebody will pay. Now everybody else who has their prices set at the market level are forced to drop their price, because remember, there are only so many people out there that want a gecko for it's genetics.

What I do not want to see are $10 normal leopard geckos, because like I said earlier, that kind of pricing makes them a flushable pet, "What's that little Jimmy? Your lizard died? Hmm,...maybe we were doing something wrong? Oh well, flush it down the toilet and we'll go get another one".
Hopefully that doesn't happen, but like other posters have noted, it's the sheer number of animals that are being produced that drive the market down.

On that note, a good way to help keep the market value up if you find yourself with too many geckos to keep is by selling to wholesalers. They mark the price up to the stores they supply, and the stores mark their prices up to sell to the end user.
Dave