Anyone not breeding enigmas for 2010?

[ang3l3s]

As the title says due to :
enigma symptoms,
lack of thriving,
the economy ,
the demand,
the market ,
or all of the above.

 

[Khrysty]

I refuse to work with enigmas. Personally, I think it's silly to work with a morph that has known issues that haven't been consistently bred out.

However..

Every time I go to buy a new leo..my eyes linger over the enigmas just a little longer than anyone else. They're so gorgeous!

 

[KelliH]

I'll continue working with them. How will any issues be solved if everyone stops working with them?

 

[Khrysty]

I'll continue working with them. How will any issues be solved if everyone stops working with them?

You make an excellent point. I just see myself working with them, knowing they have issues, and trying to keep the majority of them myself because I would worry they might develop issues and someone would unknowingly breed them lol. It'd be a vicious cycle that would end up with me neck deep in gorgeous enigmas >.<

 

[robin]

i am breeding them. trying to a radar enigma

also i would like to take my original enigma male and breed him to a normal (het nothing) but i do not have anymore normal females to breed to him.

 

[thestack510]

I'll continue working with them. How will any issues be solved if everyone stops working with them?

I have to agree. I have decided I will keep working with them in some capacity in order to kind of observe and report. (For myself that is.) I have however decided to limit projects with Enigmas in them as before I had them in nearly every project. Enigmas are a labor of love. We'll never know the complete story if we throw away the book in the first few chapters.

 

[Khrysty]

Stack, I love that your little subtitle is "enigma enthusiast" lol That's cute

 

[77gecko]

i am breeding them. trying to a radar enigma

Sweet!!

 

[FloridaNature]

I got my first Enigma and while he is stunningly beautiful he seems retarded!
He strikes a inch away from any food he wants ( I hand feed him at times )
and he turns sideways when I pick him up!
It is almost like he was whacked upside the head and is just "not right".

Is this typical Enigma behaviour?

Michael

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

I got my first Enigma and while he is stunningly beautiful he seems retarded!
He strikes a inch away from any food he wants ( I hand feed him at times )
and he turns sideways when I pick him up!
It is almost like he was whacked upside the head and is just "not right".

Is this typical Enigma behaviour?

Michael

Yes, and I wouldnt breed that male for risk he could pass that on.

 

[Kristi23]

I'll continue working with them. How will any issues be solved if everyone stops working with them?

I completely agree with this.

 

[mynewturtle]

I choose not too work with them. I don't like the fact that there are problems with them, if they get bred out some day then I will work with them.

 

[justindh1]

From what I heard in previous post and a interview on late night leos that the enigma issues probably will never be bred out no matter how much outcrossing there is. I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure that I heard that.

Outcrossing of the enigma has happened since the day they came out. They have been around long enought that there should of been some kind of positive outcomes from outcrossing but yet there seems to be just the same percentage of enigmas with "issues".

I am not working with them and will never work with them personally but thats my choice. I don't want to breed something that I know will hatch out babies with "issues".

I wish for the sake of this morph that something can be done to help it.

 

[Khrysty]

I wish for the sake of this morph that something can be done to help it.

I do too. The ones without issues are pretty amazing :main_thumbsup:

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

yes I heard that outcrossing does not lower the number of hatchlings with the syndrome' as well. So in my opinion if you work with enigmas you should be ready to cull any weak ones. This pet-only thing is just a way for people to have a cheap breeding collection. Part of the responsibility of a breeder is upholding some sort of natural selection process so if you believe in pet only animals don't get into enigmas.

 

[robin]

From what I heard in previous post and a interview on late night leos that the enigma issues probably will never be bred out no matter how much outcrossing there is. I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure that I heard that.

Outcrossing of the enigma has happened since the day they came out. They have been around long enought that there should of been some kind of positive outcomes from outcrossing but yet there seems to be just the same percentage of enigmas with "issues".

I am not working with them and will never work with them personally but thats my choice. I don't want to breed something that I know will hatch out babies with "issues".

I wish for the sake of this morph that something can be done to help it.

who said this?

also you must remember it took A LOT of inbreeding for this genetic anomaly to pop out and it is going to take a long time to outcross it. this may sound harsh but when breeding enigmas you have to realize that some are going to be non thrivers and have serious enigma "syndrome" and in those cases you as a breeder must be able to cull the weakest animals.
i personally have three enigmas, none of them have any problems at all. if everyone stops working with them how are they going to get any better?
i know this is different because it is a physical deformity but what about the very well known issue of tail kinking in patternless (for you newbs, murphey's patternless) up until just a few years ago it was quite prevalent. with extensive outcrossing you barely ever get a kinked tail patternless now a days. the enigmas have been out on the market what three years now maybe four? it took YEARS for the kinking to be bred out in the patternless (i am sure sometimes it still pops up), don't ya think the enigmas deserve a bit more of a chance to be worked with?
true outcrossing never took place with the enigmas until kelli @ hiss began working with them (three or four years ago? maybe more) and boy have they (enigmas) come a long way since then.
cheers to the people who still continue to work with this magnificent morph!

 

[justindh1]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/latenightleos/2009/04/04/tba
goto minute 40 and listen from there. The answere is given in the interview!

 

[acpart]

I have one enigma without issues which I will breed for the first time this year to a PRS. I'll take my chances and let the season decide if I'll continue breeding her.

Aliza

 

[robin]

ok i saw that was from april. since then kelli sent some out to be researched while the research did not yield anything "groundbreaking", i still think most of the "neurological problems" in time can be bred out. if you also listen in that chat she says that she gets more "normal" enigmas than she does the ones with "spinning". there is a lot more info in that chat to be looked at as far enigma info and comparing the ratios to other morphs.

kelli, i think in time some of the "symptoms" can be outcrossed!

and justin if you look at kelli's post up there (at the beginning of this thread), she might have changed her mind a bit since the chat was done

 

[justindh1]

Well that doesn't really prove that she thinks differently now but i'm not saying she doesn't. I just can't see she does when no new information has came about in reference to the problems of the enigma.

To me any percentage of hatchlings with issues is too much, whether it 10% or 100%!
Thats just me!

This topic is one reason people don't care for me! I am not afraid to speak my mind about what I think!