Bio-active substrate!!!

[paulnj]

My post has humor, but I was just stating that nobody has the apsolute truth all the time.

 

[Khrysty]

My post has humor, but I was just stating that nobody has the apsolute truth all the time.

Oh lol I know that. I was just being sily >.<

 

[Johnantny]

The deeper the better. 6 inches would be minimum. An inch or two is shallow. A solid ceiling cage with minimal ventilation helps too. Reasons being, a dry substrate will be a dead substrate. The top layers will be dry but your real substrate below the surface will be damp.

How to get nesting areas in a fully bioactive terrarium: This is easy but requires a few tools and common sense. Your leos will lay their eggs in areas where temperature and humidity are favorable. So, if you have a warmer, humid area say in the 80-90F range below the surface, the gecko will choose that for a nest. The rest of the terrarium below the surface will be cooler and less likely to be chosen as a nest. To be accurate, you need a temp gun to get an idea what the nest temps are without guessing. A

 

[Johnantny]

Hit post but didnt finish... Nesting can consist of either coco peat, or sand mix or sand alone. The gecko is more interested in the temps and humidity rather the medium. They do like to burrow under something so a bark flat over the nest will serve as an enterance and provides a sense of security. If anyone wants to try it, and needs assistance, PM me or Gregg.

 

[Khrysty]

With substrate that thick, what do you use to heat it? I doubt standard under tank heat would be preferable as heat mats just don't get that hot under inches of thick substrate and I'd be wary of letting heat tape get that warm..

 

[Johnantny]

Good question. My cages are all custom built, and nearly identical except their heights. I build my cages out of ply, 2x3s, and FRP for waterproofing. The walls are double ply with insulation between the studs. This helps retain heat. The nesting areas are heated either by 45watt floods fixed above a targeted nesting area or in a few cases, small heat mats attached to the side wall of a nesting area, underground. If the targeted area is a prime location for eggs based on temps and humidity, you can bet she will try to lay there, instead of an area without the tesmps or security of cork, slate flats on surface.

 

[Ehatcher]

John, What would be the minimal dimensions that you feel would allow a bio-active substrate to thrive?

I currently have my corn snake in a 20 gallon long... would this be sufficient enough if the substrate is deep enough?

 

[paulnj]

I can answer that I think.

Eric, that would depend on the heat gradient needed, the species space needs (aboreal or terrestrial would be a start) , but I would say even a 10 gallon could be setup in this manor with 6-8 inches of substrate for a small terrestrial reptile with no climbing needs such as say a banded gecko.

 

[Tony C]

Predation is also a factor, a leopard gecko will likely eat more of the janitor bugs than a small animal like a dart frog.

 

[leogecko88]

I am very interested in trying this, and I have a few questions about these setups. My leopard gecko is in a 40 gallon glass tank. Is that big enough for this, and can the bottom handle the weight of several inches of substrate? Can I use just topsoil? If I was going to add insects to the dirt, what kind would I add?

 

[LNK89]

I am also interested in trying this. I have been thinking of playing around with a tank that is 48"L 24"W 24"H, would that be to big ? I also have some questions:
What mixture of substrate should I use ?
I would like to have a few natural desert plants in the terrarium could I do that ?
Is it hard to get the temps right with so much substrate ?
Will the geckos eat the cleaning bugs ?
Do the bugs survive just on the gecko poo or do you have to add other things to keep them alive ?

 

[thegeckoguy23]

I have had similar experience with good smell, rapid breakdown of droppings etc. in my day geckos' cages using eco earth, sphagnum moss and pill bugs from the backyard.

Aliza

Can this be done with leos? and wouldnt the day gecko or leo eat the pill bug?

 

[acpart]

The pill bugs tend to burrow so the leos can't get them. It's difficult to do this with leos because the eco earth is best when regularly wet and the humidity will be too much for them.

Aliza

 

[Tony C]

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=53059&highlight=slayer

 

[little98dime]

I've been using Bio-active soil with my cresty for a while now. all I did was mix up some eco earth, top soil, and sphagnum moss together, added some leaves and a top layer of sphagnum moss to help retain moisture. I added a Florida Ivory millipede and caught about 50 Isopods. The millipede and isopods were kept in a quarantine for a month and then added. I dont have to clean poo,... period. I add some flake fish food to help round out the diet of the milli and isopods. (isopods are crustacians for those who didnt know.)

The reason for people not getting mold or fungus is because isopods thrive on it. They eat that as well as anything like feces, rotting food, dead insects, etc.

Also, i know someone is bound to say something about the millipede being dangerous due to the secretions it makes....millipedes only secrete it when threatened and even that is last ditch. I only had my milli do it once and that was when I was trying to get it to. My cresty doesnt even pay it any attention. Too big to eat. (about 3" long and growing)

 

[fuzzylogix]

i am doing the same with my croc skinks and have a "pond" as well at one end. im using a turtle log sponge with a pump and the sponge filters the water better than any store bought filter insert. i haven't had to clean the hab out once by using the isopod method. i have also recently found my first croc skink egg as well!

 

[thegeckoguy23]

Tony will this work i well put in eco earth abpout 3 inchs add like 10 pill bugs?

 

[slayer]

Just throwing up a few pics of Leo setups using a bioactive soil mix
10gal setup

33gal setup

Rack setup

Partially back filled nesting burrow(im not sure why she didnt back fill this one compleatly)

Eggs in situ

A nice tight hide area

Basking spot temps on a cool day

Enjoy

 

[T-ReXx]

I find this concept very interesting. Lately, with the species I've been tending towards(arboreals like Uroplatus and tokays and semi-terrestrials like Cyrtodactylus) I've been moving more and more animals to more naturalistic setups, and I really do like the general low maintenance and more naturalistic behaviors. I've been toying with ideas for bioactive setups for my animals that are kept in sterile setups for the most part(leos, afts) and would love a way to make it work out. I do use bioactive, planted setups for my Uroplatus, Gekko, Cyrtodactylus and Ghyra species and I have to say I find the animals seem to do quite well in them.

A couple of concerns/issues I have:

Space: Naturalistic enclosures generally are required to be larger than sterile setups. Considering the size of my leopard gecko colony(and the fact that I prefer to house animals singly), I can't really see setting up 50+ aquarium-type cages. I would really love to hear more about how this is working out in a rack system.

Breeding: Finding eggs. The biggest issue I see here. Although providing a seperately regulated nesting area is an idea, in tubs using a bulb as a heat source is going to be very difficult. And I really would rather not have to dig up the entire tub just to find eggs for incubation. Although this would be simpler in a single animal setup(you could simply check obviously dug burrows) it's still a bit more complicated than I would like. This is also the issue many people have with cresties in these types of setups, as they will bury eggs just about anywhere since the appropriate temps for maintenance are also appropriate for incubation. One note though, with arboreal egg gluers like tokays, or even species that simply hide eggs in plants or under leaves, this is a bit easier. Small piles of leaves as opposed to full covering in a planted setup allows one to check specific sites as opposed to the whole substrate.

I generally like this idea, as although paper towel and the like are excellent maintenance substrates, I would like to be able to provide a more natural environment for the animals. However, I would also like to keep things organized and efficient in a larger collection. There's got to be some sort of middle ground here.

 

[Blacksupra94]

When I first came in to this reptile scene I was confused as to why people did not utilize bioactive substrates, thank you for stepping out and doing something awesome.

I use eco earth in my crested gecko and there are mites but they have been in there for a year with no visual problems and my gecko seems happy and healthy, I often find them eating his left over CGD. Are these mites normal? From searching around it appears they are but I wish they would leave the soil and go eat the poop on the sticks and glass lol.

Do you have problems with your reptiles trying to eat the millipedes? I really want a couple of these guys but i'm afraid my crested will attack it...

As for whoever brought up the captive bread discussion, it does not matter! Reptiles function on pure instinct, they are born knowing everything they need to survive.