Bio-active substrate!!!

[JordanAng420]

The thing about parasites that most people fail to realize is that the greater majority of them are spacific to reptiles, mammals, and insects... This means that if an insect is eaten by a reptile the parasite in the insect will not infect the reptile... Some parasites are even species spacific...

+1
THANK YOU!!! :main_thumbsup:

 

[Landen]

[/QUOTE] No need to worry about ants either unless you dig up a colony queen and all...[/QUOTE]

Gregg, you've obviously never encountered a Texas Fire Ant .... lol

 

[robin]

No need to worry about ants either unless you dig up a colony queen and all...

Gregg, you've obviously never encountered a Texas Fire Ant .... lol

and those lil centipedes and stink bugs and earwigs and those black pinchy bugs uggg and water roaches! :main_rolleyes:

 

[Landen]

No need to worry about ants either unless you dig up a colony queen and all...

Gregg, you've obviously never encountered a Texas Fire Ant .... lol[/QUOTE]

and those lil centipedes and stink bugs and earwigs and those black pinchy bugs uggg and water roaches! :main_rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Black pinchy thing being those little ant lions! those things are killer, centipedes big enough to take small cats and such!! I'll stick to paper towels being here in tejas.

 

[Ehatcher]

Gregg, your V. spinulosus sorta looks like a mongoose in that picture lol

 

[Gregg M]

Like I said, not everyone needs to use a bio-active substrate... If you are happy and content using paper towels, that is fine... There certainly is no danger in that and it obviously works great and the reptiles kept on paper towels thrive just fine...

The exact same thing can be said for natural bio-active substrates... This is just an alternative to keeping reptiles in lab like conditions...

I use both methods at the moment and both work great... However, like I stated, I am doing trial now in my racks to see how it works... If all works out well, I will never use a paper towel as a substrate again...

Just a side note, you can be particular about what insects you allow to colonize your bio-active substrate... You can use peatmoss, organic topsoil, wood mulch, and play sand and then add the insect species you want...

Personally, I do not bother doing it that way...

 

[robin]

Like I said, not everyone needs to use a bio-active substrate... If you are happy and content using paper towels, that is fine... There certainly is no danger in that and it obviously works great and the reptiles kept on paper towels thrive just fine...

The exact same thing can be said for natural bio-active substrates... This is just an alternative to keeping reptiles in lab like conditions...

I use both methods at the moment and both work great... However, like I stated, I am doing trial now in my racks to see how it works... If all works out well, I will never use a paper towel as a substrate again...

Just a side note, you can be particular about what insects you allow to colonize your bio-active substrate... You can use peatmoss, organic topsoil, wood mulch, and play sand and then add the insect species you want...

Personally, I do not bother doing it that way...

ok i have a question. where i am in texas. we have an abundance of reptiles. if i used stuff from outside of my house could their be a possibility of transferring any parasite or disease to my animals?

 

[robin]

+1
THANK YOU!!! :main_thumbsup:

i was born with a horrible parasite called Toxoplasma gondii. terrible little bugger it was. left me blinded and crippled at birth and no my mother did not get it from cats, birds, or mice.

 

[JordanAng420]

I'm familiar with Toxo. It's Zoonotic. I know. What's your point? I was just emphasizing Gregg's point, which happens to be true.

 

[Tony C]

I use both methods at the moment and both work great... However, like I stated, I am doing trial now in my racks to see how it works... If all works out well, I will never use a paper towel as a substrate again...

Please keep the thread updated, I am very interested to see how it turns out.

 

[robin]

I'm familiar with Toxo. It's Zoonotic. I know. What's your point? I was just emphasizing Gregg's point, which happens to be true.

that even though many diseases are specific to "reptiles, mammals and insects", many are not and many parasites can be passed from animal to animal. even insects in some stages of life can be a parasitic form.

let's look at this,

"A zoonosis (pronounced /ˌzoʊ.əˈnoʊsɨs/) or zoonose[1] is any infectious disease that can be transmitted (in some instances, by a vector) from non-human animals, both wild and domestic, to humans or from humans to non-human animals (the latter is sometimes called reverse zoonosis). Many serious diseases fall under this category."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

now this is just zoonoses but can you imagine avian to reptile, reptile to mammal, avian to mammal via an insectivorous vector or microscopic parasite or protozoa?

exotic diseases are more real than people think.

i definitely think there are other ways to keep captive animals in a naturalistic manner without the possibility of your animal picking something up.

* just as a note: i do know about beneficial bacterias and such and using bacterias to clean certain kinds of things. so i am no idiot to the whole beneficial biological stuff.

 

[acpart]

I think there can be a middle ground between sterility and bringing in the entire outdoors (not that I think either alternative is necessarily bad). If you start with something like eco earth and then allow the creatures already in the house (e.g. fruit flies --they must have come from somewhere) to colonize and maybe judiciously add some bugs (I add pill bugs from back yard) then you aren't dumping lots of uncontrolled stuff (if you'd rather not) into your enclosure,.

Aliza

 

[thegeckoguy23]

Ok thats cool but my set up is a tub with a water dish food bowl and paper towel hot hide humid hide and then a cool hide do you use this type of set up for your leos i would not but can i use eco earth on them

 

[robin]

I think there can be a middle ground between sterility and bringing in the entire outdoors (not that I think either alternative is necessarily bad). If you start with something like eco earth and then allow the creatures already in the house (e.g. fruit flies --they must have come from somewhere) to colonize and maybe judiciously add some bugs (I add pill bugs from back yard) then you aren't dumping lots of uncontrolled stuff (if you'd rather not) into your enclosure,.

Aliza

now, that i DO agree with. only thing. i don't think i could deal with the fruit flies lol

 

[Dogger25]

I totally get where your going with it and I believe its a nice idea. I'm sure your pretty careful where you get the different blends of substrate. Its very similar to freshwater large fish tanks. I've had large tanks that can basically maintain theirselves through the bacteria colonies in the biofilters. Of course there is a few water changes that are involved. I'm sure bio actve substrate would be the same way to - when it's broken down so much some more will need to be added as well.

 

[Gregg M]

ok i have a question. where i am in texas. we have an abundance of reptiles. if i used stuff from outside of my house could their be a possibility of transferring any parasite or disease to my animals?

Hey Robin,
We have an abundace of reptiles here as well... We have had no issues at all... We have been running cages like this for years... We started doing this back in 03 0r 04... Our animals consistantly test clean and are apparently thriving as they have been producing lots of offspring for years...

What diseases and parasites are you concerened with exactly??? If you look at the life cycle of internal parasites, most, if not all go from host to host usually through fecal matter or through drinking water... Rarely are they spawned from soils...

There are not many parasites that can be passed between animals of different orders... With the ones that can be passed normally need to in order to complete certain life cycles and normally prove to not infest a host...

As far as diseases go, it is not likely you will scoop up diseases when you are digging a few inches of dirt up to add to your cage...

Your chances of giving your reptiles any diseases or parasites from using natural dirt is about as good as giiving them diseases and parasites from cork bark, topsoil, eco earth, peat moss, or mulch... All of the beddings you buy in a store comes from the outside... Most are not cleaned or disinfected... If you ever use mulch or peat, after a few weeks you will notice wood lice/substrate mites and some other beneficial insect life...

On top of all that, most keepers worry so much about parasites... Parasites are as natural to reptiles as eating and drinking... The thing is, when properly cared for, reptiles get rid of their own parasites... High basking temps and proper husbandry are the best ways to keep parasites under control....

And when I say fecals from our animals come back clean, I am also talking about WC imports that were never given any type of de-worming medications... They never get antibiotics, flagyl, panacur, or anything of the sort... Our V. spinulosus came from the wilds in the Solomon Islands covered in mud and ticks... None have been de-wormed and none will be... They are steadily putting on weight even though they have parasites... The parasite load is much smaller already and will soon be undetectable...

The only time parasites become an issue is if their most basic husbandry requirements are not met...

No matter what reptile you keep, who you got it from, or how many generations they were bred in captivity, they either have, already had, or will get parasites... There is no way around it and no way to avoid it...

Some of your reptile most likely have parasites of some sort... The thing is you take very good care of your reptiles so parasite loads are kept way under control and are most likely not high enough to even show up in fecals...

 

[Khrysty]

Gregg, two people asked you whether you use your bio-active substrate on smaller reptiles. Idk if you're pointedly not answering them or if you just keep missing the questions..but most of us keep leopard geckos, bearded dragons, etc, and we'd like to hear your opinion on whether this sort of system is as safe for them as it is for your monitors and snakes

 

[Gregg M]

Gregg, two people asked you whether you use your bio-active substrate on smaller reptiles. Idk if you're pointedly not answering them or if you just keep missing the questions..but most of us keep leopard geckos, bearded dragons, etc, and we'd like to hear your opinion on whether this sort of system is as safe for them as it is for your monitors and snakes

Yes, dwarf monitors, leopard geckos, and knobtails...

 

[Johnantny]

I have been using raked up leaves and beach sand, beach driftwood and stuff I find in the woods for over 10 years. Inside my lizard cages you will find a complex system thriving on waste. There is NO OPTION for large lizard habitats kept indoors unless you can handle the smell of fecal matter and spot clean constantly. I've tried every marketed substrate- NOTHING can do what oak leaves and sandy dirt can. There's a smell of leaves, not feces. There's a 1 foot to 18 inch deep, diggable substrate for burrowing and hydration. The top leafy layer is the key. The leaves act as an insulator- keeping the lower parts damp and top layer crusty. Wood lice, isopods, superworms, beetles, and minute creatures share the cage with the bigger inhabvitants without issue. Any super worm, cricket found wandering is fair game. I rarely if ever clean out the entire cage. It would destroy a system in place that acts as my build in sanitation department.

I have friends that do the same- even going as far as to house geckos with monitors. The geckos have plenty to eat- loose crix, dubias and such. There lives are so sufficient that they are able to reproduce and hatch inside the confines of a monitor lizard "cage". These geckos are not preyed upon because of the nocturnal nature of leos and tokays, and diurnal behavior of monitors and tegus.

Every fall, I add a hundred lbs of leaves I rake up in the yard. Oak is my favorite due to its durability. Best of all, its all FREE.

Cheers,

John

 

[Gregg M]

John actually got me into using bio-active substrates... I though he was crazy at first too... LOL... But when it actually proved to be a rock solid system, I could not ignor his results... It is what it is... Many people will atleast choose to try it out and others will not bother... Like I said, it is a proven alternative that works great...

I have friends that do the same- even going as far as to house geckos with monitors. The geckos have plenty to eat- loose crix, dubias and such. There lives are so sufficient that they are able to reproduce and hatch inside the confines of a monitor lizard "cage". These geckos are not preyed upon because of the nocturnal nature of leos and tokays, and diurnal behavior of monitors and tegus.

For the record, this is not something we do here... We would not do something like that because we would not chance having geckos get eaten... However we do have some geckos running around the herp room to take care of escaped crickets and roaches...