Hybrid animals...

[robin]

There are some people that are purists and consider any crossing of different locals hybridization and that's fine its just there views and not based on science. This was brought up in a conversation with a guy in AU who goes crazy when he sees people crossing carpet pythons of different locals (jungle carpets from Sidney to jungle carpet from Queensland). Its the same species bred to the same species from a different local and they feel it is wrong because it took thousands of years to get those particular traits to adapt to that particular environment

LOL that is me

but i will cross the heck outa leopad geckos lol

but if i get pure local ssp. (in boas especially) i make sure of what i am getting and who i am getting it from (which are only a handful of people). now, dealing with the leoaprd geckos i do not know who collected them and how many peoples hands have been on them and if scale counts have been done, so it's not as big a deal, but i will keep a diversified bunch of "ssp" leos and breed them together to keep good strong lines and also out cross them to clean up other lines

 

[robin]

I agree with Robin on this. It's likely that subspecies of E. Mac. often overlap habitats in the wild, and probably occasionally interbreed. I would not consider an Afghan crossed to a Fascio a hybrid.

read my last post. i do not agree with it but with these new leos coming into the US, it's not such a big deal. i guess i am sorta weird or rather just picky

 

[Lance Portal Reptiles]

hey all....sorry to leave you guys out of the loop on the rhac hybrid topic. I have acouple of them, crested X chahoua hybrids and sara X crested hybrids. Some things i have found is that they can and do produce, growth is alot faster than that of both parents, my breeder crestoua is out weighting my cresteds that are the same age by about 10-15grams....hes still growing, think he will be a giant(you guys are the 1st to know about this size and growth difference), it might just be mine...i dont know.

BSM talked about the carpet crosses....i just got done talking with a big carpet breeder and he was saying that the 50/50 carpet crosses get mixed up so easy because they look so much like one another...with the crestoua's.....they look nothing like any gecko on earth...so no one would miss label it as something it wasn't. With the sara hybrids, they have crested chevon patterens...almost looks like a new morph and tryed to let another fourm know about this and i was attacked for warning them that this was a hybrid and not a morph...Alot of hybrid people stay off the forums and keep their projects on the downlow....i think the gecko world should know about things like this..... even if you dont like the idea

 

[robin]

after going to your hybrid website, i think i just threw up in my mouth a bit

 

[Lance Portal Reptiles]

each is to their own......and i respect that

 

[Olimpia]

I think that's actually pretty cool. If people can cross dogs and cats, why not geckos. If the goal is to create more and more incredibly patterned animals, then why not. I think it's unfair that you would have to keep your projects hidden for not sound reason.

 

[cassadaga]

I think that's actually pretty cool. If people can cross dogs and cats, why not geckos. If the goal is to create more and more incredibly patterned animals, then why not. I think it's unfair that you would have to keep your projects hidden for not sound reason.

Who crossed a dog and a cat?

 

[BSM]

I been to your website before and i even posted some pics but there not there any more since the photos were linked to my photobucket and those were erased.

I have no problem with hybrids but the biggest problem is making sure you can keep track of the population and make sure there not a local species. Heres the problem i can see in the future, say someone buys one of your offspring then breeds it back to say a crested then those offspring get put on the market. An un experienced person buys it an either breeds it back to a crested and sells the offspring as crested instead of hybrids as they look so similar or they sell the cross they brought and sell it as a crested and if the person who gets it decides to breed it to a crested as thats what they think it is.

BSM talked about the carpet crosses....i just got done talking with a big carpet breeder and he was saying that the 50/50 carpet crosses get mixed up so easy because they look so much like one another

Thats the biggest problem, keeping track of what is what and then it makes it harder for people to get what they are truly after. One thing i actually dont like about hybrids in the snake industry is many people who attempt these crosses are in it for the money and not just plain curiosity. The high price can be seen as both a negative thing and a positive thing IMO.
1 it makes it harder to get to the average people = less chance of crossing back
2 it can be seen as greed and thats not what its suppose to be about.


Keep it up lance, what other species are you working with, i would love to see what they look like. My curiosity always gets the best of me while breeding as you never know what you will get and hybrids add an extra twist as we all are guilty of dreaming of what would species x and species T make when mixed.

my breeder crestoua is out weighting my cresteds that are the same age by about 10-15grams....hes still growing

Theres that twist i like, you never know what to expect. What was the parents of the crestoua (mom and dad) and have you breed the opposite pairing and gotten the same results. Lance when i got time tomorrow i will look over your site and see can i find some pics of them.


Bryan

 

[BSM]

If people can cross dogs and cats

I think he means the different breeds, thats way different as there all the same species (came from same ancestors)

 

[Olimpia]

Who crossed a dog and a cat?

lol no, between each species. People mix domestic cats with wild cats, and domestic dogs with wolves and other similar species. People have always played around with hybrid animals, it's nothing new.

 

[robin]

it may not be new but that does not mean it is ethical

 

[Olimpia]

Has anyone tried mixing leopards with AFTs? If it could be done the albino crosses could be amazing. An amel fat tail mixed with a really cool leo? I'm sorry, but I'd love to see that.

 

[Olimpia]

Ethical in what sense? For the reasons BSM mentioned?

 

[Lance Portal Reptiles]

Thats the biggest problem, keeping track of what is what and then it makes it harder for people to get what they are truly after. One thing i actually dont like about hybrids in the snake industry is many people who attempt these crosses are in it for the money and not just plain curiosity. The high price can be seen as both a negative thing and a positive thing IMO.
1 it makes it harder to get to the average people = less chance of crossing back
2 it can be seen as greed and thats not what its suppose to be about.

Very true...thats one of the reasons i dont sell them to anyone...... As far a ethics....well all are "playing god" with living things so to speak....having a "whatever morph" breed to a "whatever morph", if they didnt want to breed, they wouldn't....

 

[herpencounter]

Who crossed a dog and a cat?

I don't know if this is true but I had to look it up... LOL

 

[robin]

Very true...thats one of the reasons i dont sell them to anyone...... As far a ethics....well all are "playing god" with living things so to speak....having a "whatever morph" breed to a "whatever morph", if they didnt want to breed, they wouldn't....

what we are breeding are subspecies crosses. they just happen to have different color and genetic mutations.

were on this earth other than in someone elses captive hands would a ball python (from africa) breed with a carpet python (austrailia) or a ball python with a burmese.


you say you do not sell them but what about if you get tired of them or you get old and no longer can care for them. where do they go? off to some other person who may not be as safe or credible or would they be euthanized to keep from getting into the wrong hands?

 

[robin]

if they didnt want to breed, they wouldn't....

ever seen a donkey show?

 

[cassadaga]

Hahaha. That's ridiculous.

Breeding a German Shepard to a Dalmation is not the same as a Ball to a Woma, or a Leopard to a Fat Tail. All domestic dogs are the same species. Similar to the morphs of leopard geckos. In fact, there are a lot of problems in pure bred dogs as a result of inbreeding, and mutts are arguably genetically stronger.

 

[leoman777]

Hahaha. That's ridiculous.

Breeding a German Shepard to a Dalmation is not the same as a Ball to a Woma, or a Leopard to a Fat Tail. All domestic dogs are the same species. Similar to the morphs of leopard geckos. In fact, there are a lot of problems in pure bred dogs as a result of inbreeding, and mutts are arguably genetically stronger.

ive seen a aball breed toa woma i hvae to say it was kinda cool but not a snake i would buy

 

[BalloonzForU]

Has anyone tried mixing leopards with AFTs? If it could be done the albino crosses could be amazing. An amel fat tail mixed with a really cool leo? I'm sorry, but I'd love to see that.

Yes it's been tried and it's not a very nice outcome. They are too different with different needs.