Anyone not breeding enigmas for 2010?

[ILoveGeckos14]

that being said, i plan to breed a female enigma this season.

lol!!

we have 4 enigmas total in the collection and are only using one enigma male this season to observe the results for ourselves.

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

I wonder what the number of incidences of enigma syndrome in Male enigma x non-enigma crosses versus female enigma x non enigma male. If it is a vitamin/mineral related issue on some level then her ability to provide properly to egg production would be compromised and might contribute to a higher output of syndrome babies. Just a thought

 

[thestack510]

I don't believe the gender if the Enigma is a factor at all when it comes to Enigmas having issues.

 

[KelliH]

I don't believe the gender if the Enigma is a factor at all when it comes to Enigmas having issues.

No, you're right, it isn't.

 

[paulnj]

ANYONE who got a enigma from me that acts wierd please raise you hand PUBLICLY....


I am waiting

Still waiting

echo echo echo... anybody out there?

I have shipped to HAMM for delivery to other countries(find more stress if you can), I have shipped to Eric in very cold weather and it got lost in transit and arrived cold after 2 full days and still acts normal and produces the same.

JT's dad was the most retarded enigma on the planet, but he has produced 300+ offspring that are just as normal acting as him. Sure he gets wierd for a few weeks when breeding season comes, but alot of non enigmas do the same thing.

My BEE from mike rekowski is the same way.. PERFECT acting animal on his second breeding season.

My enigma het radar is perfect

my rainwater enigma is perfect

my hypo dreamsickle is perfect


Cull those crappy enigmas you greedy breeders !!!!!!

 

[robin]

Cull those crappy enigmas you greedy breeders !!!!!!

:thumbsup:

 

[paulnj]

Also, please everyone DON'T BREED ENIGMAS!!!! I will be more than happy to fill your market share for you

 

[eric]

Also, please everyone DON'T BREED ENIGMAS!!!! I will be more than happy to fill your market share for you

:main_thumbsup:

 

[justindh1]

Cull those crappy enigmas you greedy breeders !!!!!!

Your right Paul, cull them! The culling should of been done from the very beginning! It does come all down to GREED! The money ment more then anything else! Just wonder if they did that in the beginning. The enigma genetics could be alot stronger then what they are; maybe, maybe not!

You think that everyone that gets a "pet only" gecko is ethical? I'd say there is more then one "pet only" that has been bred.

Also, please everyone DON'T BREED ENIGMAS!!!! I will be more than happy to fill your market share for you

You can fill up my part of the market with enigmas Paul. I'm sure i'll be just as happy breeding other morphs and staying away from them. Ah what am I saying, i'll probably be more happy! :main_laugh:

 

[BSM]

personally i think enigmas shouldn't be bred in the numbers they are, you can find them everywhere and even in pet stores. IMO bell should of waited a few years to see what was up with them before releasing them, im not bashing on him at all. The less number the better then people will start going back to the line bred stuff instead of these.

 

[Pickles457]

personally i think enigmas shouldn't be bred in the numbers they are, you can find them everywhere and even in pet stores. IMO bell should of waited a few years to see what was up with them before releasing them, im not bashing on him at all. The less number the better then people will start going back to the line bred stuff instead of these.

Totally agree, enigmas are one of the most beautiful, varied morphs that we have the pleasure to work with. I have one enigma in my collection right now and the only "quirks" she has is that she will only eat crickets, and if im cleaning her cage she gets a little shaky. but other than that shes perfectly healthy. I believe that one day it will be bred out, but it will only come from responsible hobbyists who chose to only release "normal" acting enigmas. I dont down on anybody who sells pet only animals, because there are plenty of hobbyists who keep geckos just to keep geckos, but theres no way to police what somebody does with a pet only gecko once its theirs. to all you breeders who are working to breed out the "syndrome" kudos to you:main_thumbsup:

 

[Gregg M]

personally i think enigmas shouldn't be bred in the numbers they are, you can find them everywhere and even in pet stores.

I agree but the same can be said for leopard geckos in general and many other reptilian species...

Everyone has been cool so far in this thread... Lets keep it that way...

 

[robin]

i'm cool :grin2:

 

[herpencounter]

i'm cool :grin2:

Hey. If that's what you have to say to get you through the day, then go right ahead! :main_laugh:

 

[Wandering Paddle]

I would really like to see the results of someone on this forum who thinks it can be bred out who has outcrossed the trait. I know the trait has been outcossed to every captive E.m. subspecies and the turcmenicus; i dont see the trait being outcrossed any further than completely unrelated wild blood lines, but even these crosses still produce offspring that displayed the "negative effects" of the trait.

Im standing 100% with the opinion that it will never be bred out.

 

[dprince]

I would really like to see the results of someone on this forum who thinks it can be bred out who has outcrossed the trait. I know the trait has been outcossed to every captive E.m. subspecies and the turcmenicus; i dont see the trait being outcrossed any further than completely unrelated wild blood lines, but even these crosses still produce offspring that displayed the "negative effects" of the trait.

Im standing 100% with the opinion that it will never be bred out.

I agree with you, I don't believe it can be outcrossed out.

I've worked with engimas for a couple of seasons, and I've produced both enigmas that showed no symptoms, and enigmas that showed severe symptoms, as well as everything in between. Since they were kept identically, I can't actually state that conditions of how they were kept were a factor at all, though stress definitely seemed to affect them. For example, some enigmas that I had showed zero symptoms until they were bred. Some that I shipped showed no symptoms until they reached their destinations. The ones I produced who were symptomatic here were adopted out free of charge or euthanized, if their symptoms were severe enough.

One of my favorite enigmas, a het bell male enigma produced by Paul Sage, never ever EVER showed symptoms. I received him when he was about 20 grams. I bred him to several females of different morphs (no enigmas); some of his babies were perfect and showed no symptoms in the whole time I had them here; some ended up with varying degrees of symptoms. :main_huh:

For those who never ever produced an enigma with symptoms, that's very lucky for you. My belief based on the testing that was done by Kelli as well as my own experience is that all enigmas are genetically predisposed to developing the symptoms, though not all will. Stress appears to be a major factor in whether or not they develop it. Some "lines" of enigmas may be more resiliant to developing symptoms. Only time and the work of dedicated breeders who choose to still work with enigmas will tell if any of our predictions are true.

 

[robin]

Hey. If that's what you have to say to get you through the day, then go right ahead! :main_laugh:

i am cool. stephanie tells it to me all the time

oh yeah, i am funny too

 

[paulnj]

I have produced many hundreds of enigmas and YES a small percentage acted freaky... THEY ARE DEAD!!! NO PET ONLY, NO REDUCED PRICE! Dreamsickle. dead, FW enigma DEAD, enigma het FW eclipse.... DEAD.

Let's face it, release 1000's of enigmas at 6-10 grams nation wide due to over production coast to coast and the bad ones did indeed get out.. GREED .

No fingers being pointed, because the community as a whole was at fault. Whether you sold it or bought it at a reduced price..... you are at fault... me included

YOU WILL NEVER FIND A QUALITY ENIGMA being sold unsexable for $25 from a wholesaler. NEVER!

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

Another question kelli, did the pathogist find any differences in the inner ear of the enigma vs. Non-enigma? Also do you think that the enigma mutation could be semi-dominant lethal and could explain for the fact that no homozygotes have been proven?

 

[KelliH]

Another question kelli, did the pathogist find any differences in the inner ear of the enigma vs. Non-enigma? Also do you think that the enigma mutation could be semi-dominant lethal and could explain for the fact that no homozygotes have been proven?

There are no physical differences between Enigmas and non Enigmas.

I am in contact with the vet that helped us by taking on this study of the Enigmas, and I will be posting all documentation on this site.

I do not have any evidence at all to suggest that the "super" form of the Enigma (if there is one) is lethal. My strong feeling is that the Enigma morph is quite similar to the Spider morph in ball pythons which, to my knowledge at least, has never been proven to produce a "super" form either. Interestingly enough the Spider ball pythons also exhibit some of the same types of behavior that the Enigmas do.

If anyone has anything to add to this discussion please feel free to do so.